Wherein the Author Wishes to Give Mr. Robertson a Swift Kick and Opines on Science and Faith

[thomryng]

This man is clearly in need of some professional help.

First, he publically called for the assassination of the President of Venezuela. Granted, he apologized (perhaps realizing that is a felony in the United States), he did but did not recant. Then, he claimed that Hurricane Katrina was somehow caused by legalized abortion.

And now:

I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city... If they have future problems in Dover, I recommend they call on Charles Darwin. Maybe he can help them.

While I'm willing to grant Pascal's assertion that occasionally we catch glimpses of reality which transcend reason (more or less his definition of Christianity), it does not follow that Christians are required to be nonsensical.

I just returned from Mass, and what I heard there was vastly different.

(F)rom the greatness and the beauty of created things
their original author, by analogy, is seen.

In answer to Mr. Robertson's anti-science, I ask: can science contradict the Christian faith?

The answer must be: of course not. As Pope John Paul II said, "truth cannot contradict truth". If Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection accurately describes the evolution of life on Earth - if it's true - then it cannot be incompatible with Christianity. Is Genesis literally true? Of course not; some of the earliest Church Fathers said as much. For one thing, there are two different accounts of creation there. And just in case anybody was unclear on the idea of mythopœic cosmogenesis, the first chapter of John's Gospel should pretty much clear up the concept.

They're myths, people. They are an inspired attempt to speak Truth, not facts. Genesis tells us about God and about the people who worshipped Him, and about how to live, not about exactly how the physics of cosmogenesis works.

Science seeks to understand how the universe works. Faith seeks to understand why and what to do now.

Science may eventually unravel the secrets of time and space, but it cannot describe an Eternal God who transcends time, an omnipotent God who transcends space.

Anyway, I'm going to Shakabrah to write now. Maybe I actually will manage something.

Comments

[jadecat9.livejournal.com]

nicely put.

[thomryng.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[squid-ink.livejournal.com]

Pat Roberstson's existence should be proof enough that there is no 'intelligent' design, and even Mother Nature makes a mistake.

This is the same man who opposed to sanctions against South Africa long after people and governments around the world had settled the immorality of apartheid. (he had holdings there).

He called Mobutu Sese Seko "a fine Christian". This fine 'Christian' massacred his own people in the Republic of Congo but two weeks before PAT said this.

I have trouble telling if he's evil or barking mad.

I used to think he was funny. Now he's just downright annoying.

[thomryng.livejournal.com]

evil or barking mad

Sounds like a poll!

[garpu.livejournal.com]

He is one sick puppy. I'm surprised anyone actually listens to him anymore.

[gloeden.livejournal.com]

Two words: arterial. blockage.

[bastetsbeloved.livejournal.com]

Well, at least he's moved off of the notion that Hurricane Katrina was caused by Southern Decadence (gay festival in New Orleans scheduled for right around the time the hurricane hit).

I try to be a good Buddhist about the likes of Pat Robertson. I try to look at him as a sign post. Granted, I tend to think he's a sign post for stupidity... hence, why I am trying to be good. =)

He reminds me every time I see him to avoid the evils of judgment. He reminds me to share knowledge with anyone who wants to listen, to build community wherever I may, and to make sure I speak with compassion in my heart rather than ignorance.

And, then there are days when I can't be such a good Buddhist and simply wish a house would fall on him.

We cannot all think and believe the same way. I suspect for Mr. Robertson this is the stuff of which his nightmares are made.

[thomryng.livejournal.com]

And, then there are days when I can't be such a good Buddhist and simply wish a house would fall on him

Well, we're all still human, after all! I confess to moments of anger with these sorts of folks, and Mr. Robertson in particular. I try to be a good Christian.

But imagine if he were a Buddhist and saying these things. That's how I feel. Not only disgusted that a member of my own species is saying these things, but a person who ostensibly believes the universe works the same way I do is saying these things.

*shudder*

[kingcadillac.livejournal.com]

I don't think he sees the world in a way that even vaguely resembles yours. Sure, some of the words are the same, but the meaning is very different.

I understand your consternation, though. Lucky for me, Buddhists don't generally say the kind of ignorant shit Robertson does, but I know that there are people professing to be Buddhist who have absolutely no compassion or appreciation, and such people say some pretty horrible things. Like when the tsunami hit, there was an american tibetan dude who made absurd comments that were all doctrine and no feeling (you may recall I ranted about him for some time). So, Robertson is like that, but with venom and a dose of crazy.

You are neither uncompassionate nor crazy, so I don't think you need to feel that he is in any way related to you. He's a troll, you're a Thom.

[thomryng.livejournal.com]

Compassion and redemption are at the center of Christian teaching, you know? And I just can't get how people who self-identify as Christian espouse neither of them.

When the initial shock of his statements wears off, I'm not so much angry as sorrowful.

Ostensibly...

[bastetsbeloved.livejournal.com]

Perhaps there's where my error lies. At no point in time have I ever mistaken Pat Robertson for a Christian.

[saintammie.livejournal.com]

Question, how is calling for the death of the pressie of veneazuela a felony?

[thomryng.livejournal.com]

Upon better research, it turns out it's actually a misdemeanor.

Mea culpa!

As for why, this says it way better and more complete than I could:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050826.html

[saintammie.livejournal.com]

Aha, thanks, that's more or less what I was wondering.

RE: They're myths

[littledrow.livejournal.com]

That statement, applied towards ANYTHING in the bible would be grounds to label you anti-christian in a growing number of churches, some including catholic churches. There are more and more christian faiths (my mother's Presbyterian church...of all things!) where they believe the bible as fact line for line.

But of course these people also misinterpret a lot of the parables Jesus told. My favorite being the parable of the good Samaritan and why it was so weird that he stopped to help the man. Most just interpret it as helping a stranger when in fact it was helping someone of a different faith than you without judgement just because they needed help.

Anyway...there you are. :)

Re: They're myths

[thomryng.livejournal.com]

I can't speak for other Christian communions, but as for the Catholic Church: the Church emphatically teaches that scripture is not to be taken in a literalist fashion, but is to be read "following the rules of sound interpretation".

All they have to do is read the Catechism (CCC 115-119). It really is quite explicit.

In passing, I should note that I don't mean that myths aren't true, just that they aren't factual. Just as mathematics is in some sense the language of science, so myth is the language of religion.

Re: They're myths

[littledrow.livejournal.com]

I didn't mean to imply that you had meant that myths aren't true. I happen to agree with your statement that mathematics = the language of science and myth the language of religion. One simply cannot define a code of conduct with 3+x=5, x=2. Ok that's simplifying a bit but you get my drift. ;)

[kingcadillac.livejournal.com]

You know, there is no way a person without compassion could understand any religion. Pat Robertson has no compassion whatsoever.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. Despite the damage people like this could do, I couldn't stop myself and laughed like a drain!

I very much like your definitions of Science and Faith.

[soeursansmerci.livejournal.com]

Pat Robertson's IQ is going to jump 50 points about a second after he dies.

[deadrose.livejournal.com]

I felt this needed a couple of biblical quotes that I felt seemed relevant. Apologies for only having 2 translations at hand:

James 1:26

NIV If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

KJV If any man among you seem to be religious , and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

2 Peter 2:1-3

NIV But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

KJV But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Yah, it kinda sounds like Robertson to me.

[thomryng.livejournal.com]

Thanks for that. I found one more translation on the US Bishops' site.

From the NAB:

James 1:26

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.

2 Peter 2:1-3

There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.

In their greed they will exploit you with fabrications, but from of old their condemnation has not been idle and their destruction does not sleep.